grover norquist joins us now. so you said that voting for this deal which increases taxes on house holds earning more than $450,000 annually would not violate your pledge that lawmakers made to their constituents. help our viewers understand that because lawmakers who signed that pledge they vow to oppose any increasing of tax rates for individuals for businesses. how does the fiscal cliff deal not violate that pledge? >> it's technically not a violation of the pledge. but i understand why a lot of republicans had said, look, even though what's happening is the tax cuts disappear and we're restoring them for most people, so we're not raising taxes, we're actually cutting taxes -- >> you're saying because the bush tax cuts have expired yesterday. >> yes. >> so basically they expired yesterday, so technically these are still tax cuts? >> correct. i understand, and i understand if you're a congressman or senator you've got to go out and convince not me that you've technically not violated the pledge, you have to conv